mimulus_borogove: (Default)
[personal profile] mimulus_borogove
I enjoyed the season finale of Doctor Who. They really did pull out all the stops. I particularly liked seeing Elisabeth Sladen in her Doctor Who context again.

One thing I didn't pick up on: Who was pulling Donna and The Doctor together throughout their run? It seems that someone must have had a hand in it, but I couldn't figure it out. Future Rose and/or Future Humanish Doctor, trying to create their own happy ending? Doctor-Donna, knowing it must be done to save the universe? Perhaps this was clearer in the original; it's just the sort of thing Sci-Fi would cut.

I felt terrible for Donna, dialed back to her unexalted self without even a happy memory. At least the Doctor had a sharp word with her mother.

(I swear, Doctor Who has as many mommy issues as Lost has daddy issues. Martha's mom loves her, but she's rather harsh and is a terrible judge of character. Donna's mom is just horrid. Even Maria's mom on Sarah Jane Adventures is awful. At least Jackie Tyler seemed to have softened a bit by the end.)

This makes me a heretic, but I'm not very sorry to see the Daleks go. I didn't watch all their early stuff, so I just don't have the deep-seated feelings about them that many fans do. I find them a bit boring and cheesy.

Date: 2008-08-04 06:07 pm (UTC)
platypus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] platypus
I don't think skiffy cut anything from Journey's End, with its 90-minute slot. It was, I believe, said that Caan was manipulating the timelines to make things happen as they did, but how exactly was not clear.

Date: 2008-08-04 06:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaderabbit.livejournal.com
Ah, thank you. I caught something sort of like that, but somehow it didn't register as fact. Hmm. So maybe we're not all done with the Daleks after all.

I'll look forward to reading your thoughts on the episode soon. :)

Date: 2008-08-04 06:26 pm (UTC)
platypus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] platypus
I don't think we'll ever be definitively done with the Daleks; it'd be easy enough to say Caan and/or Davros escaped the final explosion. If anything, I'm a bit sick of 'wiping out' the Daleks, or reducing them to just one two, every single time we meet them in the new series. We know they'll come back, eventually, some day; they're Doctor Who's big monster. If Moffat doesn't want them -- and I doubt even that -- there'll be another showrunner sometday. So why pretend they're all dead, every last one, necessitating some handwavey technobabble explanation later as to how there can be more of them when the showrunner wants them back? (Or, as I was saying to Ken afterward, "I don't see why the Doctor was so upset about the other Doctor committing genocide on the Daleks. Everyone knows you can't actually genocide Daleks.")

I don't even doubt that the Time Lords will someday return, though I don't want it; I'd like to see the consequences of something actually stick for a change. They seemed to pave the way here by saying Caan managed to time-travel back into the Time War, even though that's 'impossible.' Nothing's actually impossible. Crossing universes has been said to be impossible at least three times now.

That said, I do believe the Daleks have been overused. It was dramatic when one came back, and then they were gone for good. It was enh when it turned out the Emperor survived after all and made a bunch of religious whacko Daleks to serve him. It was becoming boring when they showed up for their five-minute war with the Cybermen, and then a few survived that and showed up in New York to be totally unthreatening, and now this... that is just too many Daleks for a show that's only had four thirteen-episode seasons so far. They've been in three of the finales, for heaven's sake.

Date: 2008-08-05 04:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drj0402.livejournal.com
The crazy Dalek Caan is the one that was pulling the strings.

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Dalek_Caan

I am waiting for the master to come back.

Date: 2008-08-05 05:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaderabbit.livejournal.com
Thanks. Silly Daleks.

The Master is fun, but I hope they recast him. The pencil-necked geek Master really didn't seem very threatening to me.

Date: 2008-08-05 03:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cynodd.livejournal.com
I think it was either Doctor/Donna or Daleks manipulating Donna's timeline. Daleks makes more sense.

Yeah, I felt horrible for Donna. And for the Doctor, having to watch her go back to being her former her. At least he (hopefully) straightened her mother out a bit. But she's still going to go back to thinking she's nothing, after having saved the universe, which is horrible.

Good point about the mother issues, although Martha's isn't too bad.

Date: 2008-08-05 05:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clair-de-lalune.livejournal.com
On thinking about it further, I guess that the Doctor can be reasonably sure that the rest of his former companions will have future happiness, while that's less than certain for Donna. Over the course of knowing her, he's discovered that she didn't find her life before him happy or fulfilling; and he has no choice but to return her to that.

I wonder what Donna would have chosen, if she'd been given a choice? Would she have wanted to go back to how she was or would she rather have let her mind burn up? River Song chose to die rather than face a life without having known the Doctor, but their relationship was, perhaps, deeper?

Date: 2008-08-05 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaderabbit.livejournal.com
I think Donna would have rather let her mind burn up. She didn't really seem to submit willingly to having the Doctor reboot her. It was the first time Donna had really felt that she *was* something, and that would be very hard to give up.

Date: 2008-08-06 01:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clair-de-lalune.livejournal.com
Yeah, you're right. She seemed to know what was coming and nearly begged the Doctor not to do it. How sad for both of them...

Date: 2008-08-06 03:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaderabbit.livejournal.com
You can only imagine how much the Doctor values life to go against her wishes like that. Very sad.

But Sweety said there was a significant gleam off a ring that she picked up on their travels somewhere, so he thinks there might be plans to bring Donna back in some way. Not sure how I feel about that.

Date: 2008-08-06 05:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clair-de-lalune.livejournal.com
Yeah, I wondered about that ring. It's very prominent when she's talking on the phone at the end, although she's wearing it throughout the episode. I thought maybe it was a coincidence, rather than significant, though.

That's a very good point about the Doctor's actions with Donna showing the high value he places on life. Davros suggests otherwise by pointing out that the Doctor has made all his companions into weapons that will kill for him, but I don't agree with that interpretation. The Doctor is clearly distressed by their willingness to kill and the self-sacrifices on his behalf made by various people throughout the series don't show that the Doctor places little value on life. (The Doctor is actually painted as a villain at one forum I read, which I find to be quite ridiculous.)

Date: 2008-08-06 06:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cynodd.livejournal.com
I guess that the Doctor can be reasonably sure that the rest of his former companions will have future happiness, while that's less than certain for Donna.

Agree.

I wonder what Donna would have chosen, if she'd been given a choice?

I think Donna did understand the choice. She didn't want to go back, but she didn't say, "I'd rather die."

Date: 2008-08-05 05:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaderabbit.livejournal.com
I think that Donna's return to mediocrity was meant to be encouragement for the audience. The idea that one can unknowingly be the most important person in the universe is kind of sweet. But it's also very sad.

Martha's mom is a bit unpleasant, in my opinion, but at least she clearly loves Martha. And she seems educated, which is a nice change from the others.

Date: 2008-08-06 01:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] clair-de-lalune.livejournal.com
To me, Martha's mother seems fiercely protective of her, which makes her a lot overbearing.

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